Curse

Witcher King · Jul 04, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

I just got out of the Abaddon's Mouth quest, where my group failed because we could not beat the two bosses guarding the very last Ether Seal. Not because they were taking off too much damage, but because we weren't dealing enough. We had 2 fire Eles, 2 monks, 1 ranger, some other professions I don't recall, and me, a Hammer-wielding Warrior/Ele with knockdown skills galore and earth magic spells such as Aftershock.

THE PROBLEM:

Even with my rare max damage Warhammer of Enchanting, with a 14% increase in damage when my health is above 50%, I was dealing a grand total of 5 damage a hit, give or take a few. I have 12 points in Hammer and 10 points in Strength. So WHAT, may I ask, is going on here when I have 10 points in Strength which is supposed to give me 1% armor penetration for each point I spend and I am dealing a lousy 5 damage a hit. Something ain't right! I had nothing such as weakness on me but it's possible maybe the bosses were throwing enchantments out I wasn't seeing.

I'm just wondering how Strength is calculated when dealing damage and if anybody has verified that it is indeed doing the damage it's supposed to.

Thanks for any insight.

Witcher King · Jul 04, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

And when for the love of God almighty, are they going to fix the drop system? I haven't gotten a good item in over a week! Don't punish me because of the bot-users!!!

Darc.Syde · Jul 04, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

str applies to atk skills, not regular atks. atleast, last when i checked.

Red Locust · Jul 04, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

It's a beefed up shielding hands and some other +armor skills that the monk boss is using (shield of regeneration or deflection possibly) as well as aura of faith. Damage reduction, increased healing, and seemingly infinite energy supply. Solution? Daze him, disenchant him, interrupt him/knock him down (more often), backfire him. You can't do this one with muscle alone.

Mercury Angel · Jul 04, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

When you use attack skills each point of strength gives you 1% armor penetration. Many skills... etc.

Explains more than it doesn't. Never really read that, but then again, I never really play warriors often.

Witcher King · Jul 04, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Can anyone verify what Darc said to be accurate? That would certainly make a bit more sense than how I'm perceiving STR currently.

Good advice, Red. My first group managed to kill them but we lost at the end and for some reason I don't know what went wrong with this group. We tried for 20 minutes knocking them down, attacking one, then attacking both, backfiring--everything. Then we tried just hitting the Seal and running through but 3/4s our squad was gone by then, hehe. I've already beat the game with my Necro here, I'm just wondering why my War/Ele was hitting for so low.

Witcher King · Jul 04, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Thanks for the verification. Now I get it!

FrogDevourer · Jul 04, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Many boss on the Volcanic Islanic come with a built-in damage absorption (like a warrior rune on steroids). Strength won't help as they are negating the first XX dmg you'll deal. To kill them you need powerful nukes/attacks that won't be negated by their absorb, and of course mesmer/necro spells (DoT, conditions, spells that ignores armor...).

Caco-Cola · Jul 04, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Take a mesmer with Backfire, Shatter enchantment, Energy tap (or drain or both), Energy Burn/Surge, Shame, Diversion, etc etc.

Problem solved.

Willow · Jul 04, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

That's all fine and good for tips on that particular boss, but I'm much more interested in the hows and whyfors of Strength itself.

Caco-Cola · Jul 04, 2005, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Oh I dunno. I was just pointing out that sometimes it's best to sacrifice raw damage and might isn't always right.

If a mesmer had been there to shatter the enchantment you would've seen a lot better return on your damage.

But if they were using a 'buffed up shielding hands' then of course you're gonna do weak damage, that's the point of the spell.

Sekkira · Jul 04, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Well as far as I'm concerned, using logic here without knowing the exact mechanics of the game; It did say armour penetration right? Since when do hammers penetrate armour?

Caco-Cola · Jul 04, 2005, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Wear a grade III kevlar vest and get shot by a shotgun at a distance.

The slug will be stopped but you'll still have a large bruise where you got hit by the force of the slug.

Sekkira · Jul 04, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

I thought a shotgun fire spread, you'd get hit in the face, arms and legs too most likely. Even so, that isn't really armour PENETRATION.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jul 04, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

When i first used my monk on the ring of fire, our team had the same trouble. No matter what we did, we couldn't deal the damage to a boss.

My idea? I asked the ranger in the group if i could borrow a bow from him/her.

Why would i need a bow? Because i am a mo/r. I just switched my points to marksmanship and used INCENDIARY ARROWS which i had captured on that same mission...cool eh?

He soon fell to our cunning. Red locust has the right idea. It's not all about brute force, it's about skills.

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 04, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Things that effect damage amount :

Your Level
Weapon Attribute Level
Difference between your level and enemies level
Weapons req attribute Level
Enemies Armor Level

an example :

Warrior level 20 with 12 in swordsmanship attacking an enemy of level 20 with 60 armor deals the base damage of the weapon.

as above, but the enemy has 20 armor, the damage is doubled.

this time the enemy has 100 armor the damage is halved

Armor Penetration comes into account before damage is calculated

say the enemy has 100 armor, and you are hitting at 20% armor penetration, the enemy now has 80 armor for the purposes of working out the damage of your attack.

from prima guide.

Caco-Cola · Jul 04, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

I thought a shotgun fire spread, you'd get hit in the face, arms and legs too most likely. Even so, that isn't really armour PENETRATION.

Ok fine a glock, not a shotgun.

And it is armor penetration, you're still recieving damage from the shot.

You can be damaged by the force of a blow alone. If your car gets hit by a train, but only the back end (where the trunk is) you're still gonna die cause your internal organs will be so disarranged from the impact of the train that you'll die from internal injuries.

Now did the train penetrate your skin? No. Did you still die? Yes.

My uncle does this kinda stuff - investigating wrecks - for a living and he says this kinda stuff happens all the time.

There'll be maybe a little blood coming from the mouth but the victim will be dead.

Asplode · Jul 04, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

...well that's a clear (Albeit morbid) way to put it. So armor penetration from strength is only calculated in attack SKILL damages?

Then, how did this 1 str warrior char I made (all swords and tactics) do 55 damage in a normal hit in pvp? I didn't use an attack skill yet, the monk was moving, and was wearing a full tattoo set, and we were both level 20.

Now I think the case is that when you're hitting a moving target you automatically score a critical hit, right? But let's say that the sword was 11-22 +15% +20%, with 16 swordsmanship, and a sundering hilt (but I wasn't using an attack skill), against 60AL armor, that should just hit for 22 +35% right? But that's not even close to 55 :/

arnansnow · Jul 04, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

You don't get an automatic critical on a moving target (I don't think).

Edit: Sorry, evidently I was wrong. You do get automatic critical on moving targets.

Sekkira · Jul 04, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Ok fine a glock, not a shotgun.

And it is armor penetration, you're still recieving damage from the shot.

You can be damaged by the force of a blow alone. If your car gets hit by a train, but only the back end (where the trunk is) you're still gonna die cause your internal organs will be so disarranged from the impact of the train that you'll die from internal injuries.

Now did the train penetrate your skin? No. Did you still die? Yes.

My uncle does this kinda stuff - investigating wrecks - for a living and he says this kinda stuff happens all the time.

There'll be maybe a little blood coming from the mouth but the victim will be dead.

The point is it's not PENETRATION, it's inertial impact (at least I think that's the term for it).